It hurts when people use science wrong, especially the "science-y" type (Politics)

"Tapas" (tapas) 02/26/2019 at 09:54 • Filed to: None

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Sanders just said he’ll bring a Lie detector to the Presidential debates.

Ok, I know this was just to get a sound bite, excite the Democratic base and and rattle the GOP. The message is that if Trump lies, he’ll be called out on it. And I have no clue if he understands the science behind this gizmo from the 50s.

But, Lie detectors are proven to be incredibly unreliable devices to gauge whether a person is telling the truth. Their results are literally a 50/50 chance of being correct, so as good as a coin toss .   It measures your body’s response to question and answers, which can be controlled by practice, breathing technique and in other ways to sway the result.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but lie detector results aren’t even considered as evidence in criminal trials (right?).

This is really nit picking. But w hat bothers me is the party of science and reason shouldn’t promote bad science. Again, really being nit picky here...

Ash78, voting early and often > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 10:04

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Correct, they’re inadmissible in criminal trials for the reasons you mentioned, plus the fact that true socio/psychopaths don’t even register as lying because they’re often living in another reality where their claims are the truth. No comment about our president here. Just saying maybe we shouldn’t give him the “Meet the Parents” treatment.

I wouldn’t be against AOC liveblogging herself doing this, though.

Tapas > Ash78, voting early and often 02/26/2019 at 10:07

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Lol I agree.

Of course, the hope is  that Pence and Trump both get impeached before we get to 2020.

WilliamsSW > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 10:07

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  It’s easy to tell when cheeto boy is lying - it’s when his lips move, or when   he sends a t weet.

Ash78, voting early and often > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 10:11

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I honestly just hope they lose fair and square. Then you’ll have a lot less screaming about a witch hunt or a conspiracy. Both major parties have gone off the rails, which is why Trump and AOC are their current, most public faces. This is a strange world we’re living in.

Zombie McCain/Lieberman 2020!

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 10:13

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I’ve been polygraphed. It was bullshit, but the inconclusive result was good enough for the job. In reality, it seemed to primarily function as an additional opportunity for a trained interrogator to ask you about your background and see if they could get to change an answer from earlier in the process or admit to some transgression that had not previously been disclosed.

Tapas > Ash78, voting early and often 02/26/2019 at 10:14

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I’d like anyone from the Dems to win. Because 2020 is going to be a shit show of an election, no matter how “normal” it is.

H As long as they aren’t republican, crazy or incompetent, I’ll be okay. (I have lost faith in members of the republican party with how they’ve allowed Trump to take over, in the pursuit of power.)

Of course, I want someone amazing to be the next President . But t he bar really has become very low after what everyone’s been put through with this presidency.

Tapas > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 10:17

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Ah....I see.

What I don’t appreciate is that sometimes, i t’s a tactic to cast aspersions to anything you’ve said. B ecause anything short of a perfect result can be torn apart by anyone who wants to be disingenuous.

And not taking a polygraph is seen as a negative in any due process, as it is portrayed as if you have something to hide.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 10:18

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They aren’t allowed in criminal trials, but they are allowed when applying for jobs or determining eligibility for security clearance. They are easily fooled with a little training.

https://antipolygraph.org/

Azrek > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 10:19

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*Insert gif of Homer’s lie detector exploding*

Chariotoflove > Ash78, voting early and often 02/26/2019 at 10:35

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I had to google whonthis AOC person is. What a wingnut. 

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Ash78, voting early and often 02/26/2019 at 10:54

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You think any  of them, much less their enablers, are going to permit a peaceful transition of power?

Ash78, voting early and often > Chariotoflove 02/26/2019 at 11:15

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She’s like all of the blind, youthful cult of personality that Obama had behind him, but like 10x crazier and less qualified.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 11:49

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A polygraph was a mandatory step in the hiring process for that (and most) police department(s) . It is a junk science, and no one should ever sit for a polygraph voluntarily as part of an investigation . Even if it can’t be used against someone in a criminal trial, it is subjecting one’s self to a trained interrogator without a shark of your own there with you.

In my case, it turns out you just couldn’t a result of outright deception on the test, as scored by the detective administering it.  

bshappy > Ash78, voting early and often 02/26/2019 at 12:24

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What exactly has she advocated for that is so crazy?

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 12:28

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It is an automatic fail to ascribe any scientific validity to anything associated with politics.

The scientific method and established laws of nature have been abandoned in the quest for emotionally-based political correctness, or in emotionally-based rebuttal. It is all twisted to serve optics and polling theory.

Give up all hope for scientific truth, all ye who enter the political arena from any side doors. Right, left, R, D, it matters not.

MattHurting > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 12:37

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I’ve taken the lifestyle poly for a clearance twice. Failed them both apparently. First was due to the polygrapher happened to be a smoking hot 20 something woman that had my heart racing. The second was due to nerves. Total horseshit on both.

Tapas > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/26/2019 at 13:26

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I didn’t know jobs require that despite them being disproven.

That’s just crazy.

Tapas > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 02/26/2019 at 13:34

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If your takeaway is that both R and D are “same shit, different pile”, that view point dangerously overlooks the huge difference in moral corruption and hypocrisy. The GOP is miles ahead when it comes to this stuff. 

I do agree that rhetorics, optics and emotional responses outweigh all rational discourse in politics. The GOP takes advantage of this to disingenuously paint any situation/policy/debate in their favor, regardless of facts. The Dems are guily of this, but not nearly as often as the GOP. Since the conversation that politicians have in the media don’t include sources, facts and rationale, they get away with it.

The polar opposite would be all politicians would talk policy, argue bullet points and disengage the average person. I think there should be a better mix in the statements politicians make, with a few more facts.

Tapas > MattHurting 02/26/2019 at 13:36

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Exactly! People should do away with them.

Tapas > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 13:36

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That’s just outrageous.

BigBlock440 > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 16:34

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Why do you think Bernie is a “science -y type”?

Tapas > BigBlock440 02/26/2019 at 16:58

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I guess I did not articulate my post correctly...

What I meant is the Dems are usually the ones that stand by good science and reason (Climate change, how walls don’t stop illegal immigration and how sex ed and protection reduce teen pregnancies and need for abortions)   in the face of the GOP trying to push their agenda on the basis of bad faith.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 17:36

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I don’t think you want me to go down this road with you, because I assure you, you won’t like it. Don’t assume that just because I am not an R, that I agree with you.

I am not a leftist in the least, and I find socialism and communism to be murderously reprehensible, and responsible for the death and misery of tens to hundreds of millions of people, mostly those it subjugates.

Most political correctness shows itself to fly in the face of objective reality... if you want to start talking about science, such as genetics and biology, or celestial mechanics, or organic chemistry, and sometimes even basic physics.

Just because I don’t think “R” has anything substantial to stand on, and has made some colossal mistakes, does not mean that I think “D” is anything short of unabashed raving lunacy, and willfully destructive divisiveness on any and all given topics.

There are no white hats in politics. some are soot covered, others are darker black than the night they move through. Not equivalent, but none inherently good.

We had something great, the great experiment of federalist (as in Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams) self-governance, and people free to pursue their happiness, and free to do what they thought right for the freedom and liberty of the ones who were actually oppressed. People who had everything to lose by rebelling and fighting for the rights of others.

They didn’t espouse political parties, and Washington warned against such divided and divisive loyalties. I have abandoned and given up the concept of political parties as well, based on the insanity of the political discourse and rampant vilification of some, and the pure lunacy that is permitted and lauded from others.

Now we lose liberty continually, because everyone clamors for more government control, as the self-serving solution to self-proclaimed victims’ perceived oppression at the hands of anyone and everyone else, for any possibly contrived reason.

“A Government big enough to grant you everything you want, is big enough to take everything you have.”

“From each according to their ability, to each according to their need”

Some may see that as a promise, I see that as a warning against it, and a suicide pact once enacted.

I am no anarchist, I believe in law and order, up to the limits of the enumerated powers that were ratified, and not beyond that into hindering the liberty of the people. Only elitists think they can successfully control other people’s lives and interests, and become tyrants every single time they try it.

Tapas > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 02/26/2019 at 21:07

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But quite objectively, the republicans have been very destructive for the country in the last 2 years. Sometimes, it really is about choosing for the lesser evil, knowing what we know right now. 2016 was that time. 2020 will also be one of those times.

History is often white washed to glorify the victors. I wouldn’t be surprised if the founding fathers had petty fights or hum an flaws . In any case, it was a different time with different people and the world worked very differently.

I don’t assume or expect you to love the democrats either. Or politicians in general. I don’t love politicians. No one does. I just don’t think what we do in 2020 will benefit from cynically trashing everyone.

As for political correctness, I am sure there are some people who go too far. And I am sure some people are repulsed by the idea of being nice to someone by keeping their blunt opinion to themselves . I go as far as believing that people shouldn’t be dicks to one another. And you may disagree with that too and that’s fine .

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Tapas 02/26/2019 at 22:09

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If you use the word “ objectively”, you should be prepared to provide documentation, but I am not going that direction.

You are still playing the “But Republicans this....” and “but Democrats that...” game, and that is the problem. Generalizations. Hyperbole. Wishful thinking.

Villification or Lionization based on political tribalism, not based on actual merit or discretion, evaluating results of actions, ideas, and principles.

Claiming that History is whitewashed, is dismissive, and a shallow view of what has been done.

No one is arguing that the founders were superhuman. They FOUGHT with with the English throne for DECADES before the revolutionary war, and amongst themselves both before and after. Some of the early presidential elections make modern elections look like a polite dinner party.

However, it has civilizational consequences. Some create the most free country in the history of the world, by codifying the people’s rights based on “ T he laws of Nature, and Nature’s God.”

O thers create despotic hell-holes, like southeast asian communist countries , Zimbabwe, the eastern bloc in europe during the cold war. The Soviet Union. Communist China. Or how about the state of Venezuela in the last 20 years, or Central and South America under the likes of Castro an Guevara.

Political Correctness brings about things like current events... states and national voting on policies concerning the legality of KILLING CHILDREN that survive botched full-term abortions.

Taking a blessing, and the epitome of innocence and murdering it for convenience, while other people have wanted to have children, and were not blessed with gift of a legacy in the form of children of their own.

I don’t love politicians, some days, I can’t even keep myself from HATING them.

They are not our saviors. They are not our superiors. They aren’t even acting as our LEADERS should act, and they don’t even consider thinking of themselves as public SERVANTS.

I try to keep my respect for the offices they hold, but most days, I can’t respect the people that they show themselves to be.

And if an election is populated by people who don’t act like public servants, they don’t earn the position of being considered leaders, and aren’t worthy of respect.

I don’t play the election cycle game, and I don’t play on either of the two teams anymore, because it doesn’t matter.

Principles matter, and principles live in citizens, not in politicians. Neighbors helping each other. People doing their daily work, and more. Families sticking together when it gets hard, and celebrating together when it gets easier.

Federalism comes from the ground up. Citizens in Communities. It is not nationalism  from  the top down, and that is the WHOLE POINT of federalism, from the Declaration of Independence, to the Bill of Rights.

Tapas > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 02/27/2019 at 00:35

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Whoa! This is discussion is warping into too many tangents. This was my bottomline - It is a two party system and everyone has to live in the reality where an apples to apples comparison must be done and votes to one party must be given. On the basis of treasonous behavior from one party alone, I would automatically vote Democrat. No such behavior has been seen from any Democratic member.

But. You touched upon a few things that I disagree with and I want you to see where me and other people come from. Let me start with what I agree with.

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I don’t love politicians, some days, I can’t even keep myself from HATING them.

They are not our saviors. They are not our superiors. They aren’t even acting as our LEADERS should act, and they don’t even consider thinking of themselves as public SERVANTS.

I try to keep my respect for the offices they hold, but most days, I can’t respect the people that they show themselves to be.

And if an election is populated by people who don’t act like public servants, they don’t earn the position of being considered leaders, and aren’t worthy of respect.

I agreeeeeeeee! But we got what we got, baby! lol

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I don’t play the election cycle game, and I don’t play on either of the two teams anymore, because it doesn’t matter.

It does matter, dude! If you don’t care, why should other people. I personally care enough to pick the lesser evil. It is much better than inaction.

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Principles matter, and principles live in citizens, not in politicians. Neighbors helping each other. People doing their daily work, and more. Families sticking together when it gets hard, and celebrating together when it gets easier.

Federalism comes from the ground up. Citizens in Communities. It is not nationalism from the top down, and that is the WHOLE POINT of federalism, from the Declaration of Independence, to the Bill of Rights.

Again, I totally agree! Now for the other stuff.

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If you use the word “objectively”, you should be prepared to provide documentation, but I am not going that direction.

This is an easy “gimme”.

Handy dandy record of the Trump investigation. A few people would disagree that obstruction of justice into investigations of a foreign enemy from a sitting President is ok . It’s not just Trump who bene fitted from Russia’s election meddling. T he GOP’s Senators have willingly accepted campaign funding from Russia. This is what we know conclusively so far. This is one facet in the destruction.

Other facet is dangerously defunding the State Dept that is in charge of maintaining diplomatic relationships with other countries. When you defund Diplomacy, the next interaction with other countries is war. Not me, that is what Mattis said.

Then there’s what he has done to students and their debt . And farmers’ tremendous loss in business . And what he may do to victims of natural disasters . There’s too many catastrophes caused by Trump with the full support of the GOP.

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You are still playing the “But Republicans this....” and “but Democrats that...” game, and that is the problem. Generalizations. Hyperbole. Wishful thinking.

Everyone to play the “game” when making a decision to weigh out the 2 choices. These aren’t generalizations or hyperbole. They’re fairly accurate conclusions from what we know.

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Villification or Lionization based on political tribalism, not based on actual merit or discretion, evaluating results of actions, ideas, and principles.

My view does not stem from tribalism or lionization of a party. Here’s my conclusion after evaluating the merits or Trump’s actions and their results - America has not been in such poor standing amongst its allies in recent history (with Trump threatening and sometimes acting on threats of tariffs that are a tax on the American people )

....or among its enemies (where Trump is actively defending Russian and North Korean leaders from his own party and country’s scrutiny).

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However, it has civilizational consequences. Some create the most free country in the history of the world, by codifying the people’s rights based on “The laws of Nature, and Nature’s God.”

Others create despotic hell-holes, like southeast asian communist countries, Zimbabwe, the eastern bloc in europe during the cold war. The Soviet Union. Communist China. Or how about the state of Venezuela in the last 20 years, or Central and South America under the likes of Castro an Guevara.

This is the definition of hyperbole - comparing two extremes as if there is nothing in the middle. On a related note, people cite Venezuela as “ concrete” proof of socialism gone wrong. But no one mentions Sweden or Norway or any other countries where socialism works very well.

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Political Correctness brings about things like current events... states and national voting on policies concerning the legality of KILLING CHILDREN that survive botched full-term abortions.

Taking a blessing, and the epitome of innocence and murdering it for convenience, while other people have wanted to have children, and were not blessed with gift of a legacy in the form of children of their own .

This conjecture does not sit well with me. P olitical correctness won’t lead to late term abortions. One does not lead to the other. Political correctness does not give people the license to murder babies. Full term abortions aren’t legal. What has been propagated is a hoax. If there are any other discussions about the late term abortions, with the intent of making them legal, please send me the links. Because I haven’ t heard of any...

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Tapas 02/27/2019 at 01:50

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Acquiescence to a two party system ensures that we’ll never get any better than comparing two rotten apples to each other.

And don’t confuse anger with both parties as inactivity. I have voted in every presidential election in the last 25 years, and that won’t end. But I don’t vote for the lesser of two evils, because I don’t condone evil, even lesser forms.

I never said I don’t CARE. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t be so furious, and I would be far more dismissive of usurpation of our liberties and freedoms.

Permissiveness will not yield better results, it yields more complacency in the face of further decline.

Your “treasonous” comment is hyperbole, generalization, and tribalism at it’s finest. R = Treason. D = Good. There are plenty of other people who look at it from the opposite side, and think that anything coming out of the mouth of Schumer, Pelosi, Boxer, Clinton (either one), Warren, and many other outspoken liberals are just undermining of the country they claim to represent.

What was that about Obama telling Medvedev to wait until his second term before he could help Russia properly... or Hillary Clinton’s “ Reset Button” and support of Bashar Assad, and Khaddafi. Or CARE’s middle-eastern influence in the Obama administration. Same crap, different party.

THERE ARE NO WHITE HATS.

BTW... for people who are so anti-Trump... Trump was a DEMOCRAT until shortly before he announced intentions to run for President, and New York Democrats socialized and worked with him and did graft, er, I mean Business as usual.

The country is 20+ Trillion dollars in debt. More money than people’s grandchildren can pay back... that is going to come home to roost at some point. ALL government has HUGE amounts of waste that can be cut far before reaching the “meat” or “bone” of legitimate operations. It is a straw-man argument to say that no budget reduction should be allowed for fear of ruining legitimate operations.

Student debt is at an all time high, and education is more expensive than ever under federally-controlled student loans. I worked in the academic sector for more than a decade, I saw it first hand.

I live in the midwest, I know the government effects of farm subsidies, some helpful, some wasteful... but there are also hundreds of billions of dollars that go to cities, that rural areas never see.

Wrote blame of the republican party, and the republican elected president is too shallow an explanation, and a vitriolic excuse, and yet you keep trotting it out.

BTW... calling Sweden and Norway socialist... is like calling celery a meal. They are western capitalist countries with a LARGE social safety net. They are not government control of the means of production and central planning of the economy. Economically they operate in a modified capitalistic idiom, with a high tax rate, with high wealth redistribution... because they have the freedom to do so without fear of invasion under NATO’s military umbrella, that the US predominantly pays for.

Socialism, where practiced, starts out with good intentions of a social safety net, and eventually as Thatcher accurately said, they RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY, and they start to economically collapse. They become tyrannical at or before that stage to maintain the elitist power structure.

Cuba and Central American countries, Venezuela , Argentina, and other south american countries, Zimbabwe and other african countries, Post-Weimar National Socialist Germany, Fascist Italy, Communist Russia and the eastern bloc, Communist China, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and everywhere it has been tried, Socialism has devolved into the rule of a few people over all other people, and equal distribution of misery, and often the deaths of millions of people. Because people who rise to rule in those systems don’t abide by the rules that they impose.

North Korea is a current example, as well, and I have no idea what is to be gained by bargaining with a tin-pot dictator that starves his own people to death, as he enforces his rule that they worship him for it.

Not Hyperbole... historically documented fact.

Political Correctness absolutely lead to legalization of abortion, and ever since, PROGRESSIVE pressure to forward the abortion agenda has pushed the timeframe from the first trimester, to late-term abortions near full-term, and now they absolutely ARE debating and voting on policies of how to deal with infants that survive botched late-term abortions, and are delivered alive. Watch the NEWS.

https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s311/BILLS-116s311pcs.pdf

“116TH CONGRESS 1ST SESSION

II

Calendar No. 17 S. 311

To amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.”

The fact that this is even a thing to discuss is an abomination that has been the product of political correctness of the pro-”choice” agenda that has pushed the vile concept of an abortion to the point of “late- term”.

What about all the Democrats who allowed, and defended Kermit Gosnell’s abortion factory?

I don’t condone violence against people, but the legality of murder should never have been allowed in the first place, and it is absolutely a politically correct liberal platform plank, since before Roe V. Wade, and every day since.

You want to talk about moral hypocrisy, how can liberals be morally opposed to the death penalty for convicted violent murderers, proven beyond a reasonable doubt as a moral equivalent to the victim’s lives they reprehensibly ended; but yet pro-” choice”, and permissive of the murder of the most innocent state of human life, a child, as a matter of contraception after the consensual act that resulted in pregnancy?

No health care practitioner has the choice to withhold care from a child after they are born, why should they be exempted from compulsory care to a child who survives an attempted abortion? They are still a child, and still in need of medical care, and failing to do so is still a violation of the hippocratic oath.

Nobody else has the “choice” of whether they want to murder someone else, except if that someone else is an unborn child . Killing an innocent person AFTER their birth is a choice that results in a murder conviction. That shouldn’t be a factor of timing.

And before you say anything about a woman’s body, a child’s body is distinct, and genetically different... if you want to get all “Science-y”, and that occurs at conception/ fertilization.

Convoluted nonsense about Rs or Ds and what they have or have not said or done in regards to Russia, is minor compared to culturally-endorsed infanticide, because abortion is “ politically correct.”

I don’t see much moral difference between that and African countries like Zimbabwe killing white farmers , the extermination of Armenians, National Socialist Germany’s genocide and holocaust of Jews and anyone who supported them , Balkan genocide, Syrian chemical weapons use against their own citizens, Islamic Jihad against infidel and other muslims by muslim states, or stateless terrorists , Soviet murder of 20 million of it’s own people under Stalin , Mao’s murder of 50 million Chinese, Pol Pot’s genocide in southeast Asia, Che Guevara’s torture and murder of anti-communist dissidents... the monuments to socialism in modern world history. And by monuments, I mean cemetery markers.

Murder is murder. Mass Murder is Mass Murder.

And most of the BS coming out of Washington DC is just that. BS   that doesn’t actually rate on a scale of real importance, just self-serving political nonsense that propels the punditry media cycles, and keeps Ds like you pointing fingers at Rs.... and Rs pointing fingers at Ds.

And NOBODY actually addresses fundamentally important issues, and absolutely NOONE is willing to stop vilifying each other as people, to start actually talking about principles.

“ Great minds discuss ideas ; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.”

Based on Washington DC’s discourse... the whole assembly’s volume of minds couldn’t fill a drinking glass.

Tapas > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 02/27/2019 at 09:47

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This is rrreaalllllyyyy getting our of hand.

I can’t help it though. It’s not my fault the GOP supported the President in treasonous activity. It is well established and most of them are complicit. I have to call a spade a spade.

“Great minds discuss ideas ; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.”

I have to discuss people! This whole post was about actions of people - who was Sanders, by the way, about whom you had no comment ! This saying does not apply here.

Norway and Sweden are examples of the “Democratic Socialism” that some popular Democrats are proposing. The Green New deal is also a non binding agreement. So even though making America Socialist is not the plan - The Dems are really really really far from upturning one of the largest Democracies on the planet into a Socialist country.

And NOBODY actually addresses fundamentally important issues, and absolutely NOONE is willing to stop vilifying each other as people, to start actually talking about principles.

What is important to you is less important to other people. This whole thing was never about abortions, but they are important to you.

By saying no one addresses the fundamental issues, you are undermining the struggles that others have by calling them unimportant. And the reason other conversations are popular are because they resonate with more people today and ring true to so many.

But since you have shoe horned this abortion debate into political correctness into Sanders’ intent to hold Trump accountable, here we go...

Abortion before viability isn’t murder because before viability, a foetus isn’t alive. Life doesn’t begin at conception, because it isn’t viable.

The fact that it is impossibly for science to tell that at one minute, a foetus is not alive and next minute it is has given misguided people who don’t understand biological nuances ( and politicians who pander to them) in to take away women’s choice of what happens to their bodies.

What are you going to do with a freshly conceived p regnancy that is smaller than a corn seed if the mother were to pass away? If the conceived mass of cells cannot live independently, how can that be considered as a human life? For sure, you can’t look at a field full of freshly planted seeds and claim you have acres of corn crop!  

By the way, y ou have yet to provide me evidence of one legally sanctioned practice of a failed late term abortion where a child was murdered.

Kermit Grosnel was a serial killer. No human would take his side today. You are conflating ( illegal) murders with abortions.   Do not equate what he did to abortions. No one is trying to make this legal.

Moral hypocrisy is much more prevalent in the Anti choice GOP, who have promoted scientifically false and abstinence based sex-ed that has shown to increase teen pregnancy (and need for abortions), defunded programs that take care of a mother’s health (like Planned parenthood, where more than 95% of their services are not abortions) without having an alternative. Not supporting maternity leaves and child care. Defunding public schools to promote charter schools that maximize private profits and religious propoganda .

Basically the GOP only cares about is forcing any and every pregnancy to be carried to term, and then you’re on your own. What a “pro” life to live for a destitute teen forced into motherhood and her child with no money or options.

BigBlock440 > Tapas 02/27/2019 at 11:22

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how walls don’t stop illegal imm igration and how sex ed and protection reduce teen pregnancies and need for abortions

How are either of those science?

Tapas > BigBlock440 02/27/2019 at 11:40

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“Walls don’t stop illegal immigration”. I misspoke.

I should have said that “cutting edge” and cheap tunnel and ladder technology will make the 5 billion dollar expense pointless. Cartels are using tunnels right now anyway.
What’s more - spending 5 billion dollars to a wall would miss the biggest source of illegal immigration - visa overstays .

If protection and plan b pills are accessibly, teens don’t become pregnant and in the need for an abortion. Studies also agree that teen pregnancies and STDs go up where Abstinence based education is taught 1 , 2 , 3 .

Abstinence based sex ed willfully and maliciously misinforms teens that protection is not effective. That alone is messed up. It also ignores the fact that teens are going to have sex, whether they are scared and misled into thinking it’s dangerous or not. They will also be ashamed of seeking help when they get an STD or pregnant because of the associated shame. And then, not arming them with the tools or knowledge about what to do when things don’t go well is just spiteful and cruel. (by restricting low cost or free help to cure stds by defunding womens health programs, restrict access to plan b, make abortions illegal or very humiliating and expensive to get)

BigBlock440 > Tapas 02/27/2019 at 12:02

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That doesn’t answer how either of those are science...

Tapas > BigBlock440 02/27/2019 at 12:46

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Scientific r esearch as been done into the situations to prove what works and what doesn’t.

Thanks for sharing a civil discussion with me!

BigBlock440 > Tapas 02/27/2019 at 14:25

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You have a very loos definition of “scientific research”. Statistical analysis maybe, but I am very skeptical that any kind of scientific research has been done on either of those social problems (aside from, obviously, the medication part of it)

Tapas > BigBlock440 02/27/2019 at 15:47

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I see. Thanks for being receptive to what I had to say.

I don’t have anything further to add. I didn’t set out to change your mind on anything. I hope I have given you some insight into what my thought process has been to arrive at my positions.

I now have some understanding of yours.

I apologize i f I g ot a little terse or snarky. Sometimes its hard to be dispassionate and calm about certain topics.